how to calculate function point for ms access project

[sah]

Hi everyone,
Can anyone show an example for calculating Function points (Software Engineering) for an ms access database?
Most websites show it theoretically (for any project). What i need is Function point calculation for ms access specifically which is both front and back end.
Thanks in advance.

[help_me_with_access]

are you talking about the function point concept that is used in determining the business valuation that a program provides to the bottom line?

if you are, how could you possibly determine that without using official methods invented by others? like IBM? Didn't they make good use of this stuff at one point in time?

[sah]

Hi help_me_with_access,
I found some pictures, might help me with calculating function points. I am ready to use any one's methods, but i should know how to use them with a practical example.

[help_me_with_access]

you didn't answer my question my friend. look at my first post!

do you know what a function point actually is? why do you need one? and who gave you the instructions? a supervisor?

where did you get those images that display the data?

sorry for the questions, just curious. but doing work like this shouldn't, IMO, be done for free. thus, I personally am not going to give an answer. but I can certainly help guide you. but again, you didn't answered my first question to begin with..??

[sah]

hi again,
I just completed creating a small DB with forms, reports etc. and now for documentation sake we are supposed to calculate Cost Estimation of that project. I myself am trying hard to learn function points, COCOMO model, KLOC size etc. How are we supposed to estimate a project?

[help_me_with_access]

well I'm sorry to hear that. I assume you're not the manager? You probably need to know, now more than ever, that documentation and estimates for IT projects need to be completed BEFORE the work begins! at least that's what I've always seen. how can you possibly give an ETA based in moneys or time if you've already done the work? kinda defeats the purpose of budgeting at all! I would advise you to tell the higher authorities that, if heaven for bid that's what has happened!

what I think you're trying to say here is that you're required to PRODUCE estimates of projects in your line of work using access as the documentation and data tool, correct?

or are you saying that someone is asking you to document the salary expense, hourly wage, etc... so they can determine how much financial (and any other) resources were used to get the access project up and running? e.g. - a contingency request because they didn't track this in the pro-forma fashion in which they probably should have to begin with?

[sah]

Thanks for responding so soon.
Well, this is an extremely small project with LOC of 2000.
Yes as you say Cost Estimation is to be done a bit before but i find coding much easier. I have never done cost estimation. My DB is kind of school project assignment. And now all of a sudden calculating cost etc. is proving difficult.
And for resources - we are using all existing ones. Its only a team of two doing it. And neither are we paying nor getting paid for the work but still are expected to calculate man hours and project costs!!!

Sorry if i didnt let u know this before, but its not for any IT company. I dont know much about all that. I am just a beginner to all of this.

[help_me_with_access]

you're a beginner and the project is 2000 sloc? that's pretty big, dude.

well look, I don't help with school projects if I know that's what the questions are about, but none-the-less you're still asking nothing of any relevance to the forum. or I might be way off track myself.

I'm glad to continue to help you, but I would appreciate it if you first answered my original question. do you know what a function point is? also, are you supposed to use Access as the TOOL for the production of your assignment solution?

according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COCOMO

if that's relevant to your efforts, and your completed access project is actually the tool you need to do this estimation work, this forum is not the place to get your answers. You need to ask your instructor. this place is meant to help people with technology issues related to unsophisticated Microsoft software tools. Assistance with constructing costing models is not what people are here for.

sorry to break to the news to you. but if you need any other help with Access issues in a technical sense, I would encourage you to ask away!

[sah]

Is it??
Thanks anyway.
Yes i now know what a function point is - calculating external inputs,outputs,inquiries etc. and COCOMO's Effort size TDev etc.
And we are not using Access to calculate it after surfing the web we found Costar 7 which might help to calculate costs but not sure if it would calculate ms access projects.
Can you just tell me if most forms have their properties like visible = true/false etc. in the properties window and not vba then how is LOC accurate without their mention. How can we calculate LOC in built macros etc or any ms access db which does not have vba code.
Thanks for all support given and sorry for troubling if anything was inappropriate.

[help_me_with_access]

I would assume LOC is completely irrelevant for your purposes is you didn't write any visual basic code for an office program project. LOC is used to measure effort, and if you were to use the LOC involved in the construction of access itself, the value is obviously 0 because it takes zero effort to install access. understand?

as far as any objects that you see through the interface in access, I'd have no idea how you would measure stuff like that. probably measure it by the amount of time it took you to click around and create the project as it is now? what other way do you have?

LOC is incredibly inaccurate as it relates to macro objects because, if you use the interface option to convert any given macro to visual basic code, the code that you see as a result is canned code that probably came from the mind of a lower-level software engineer at Microsoft anyway. Or even more plausible, the code associated with macros has probably remained the same since the 1990s anyway.

but just to entertain you and myself (), if you want the properties associated with any given form that you have in an access database, put this code in a visual basic module, press Ctrl+G to open the debug window, then press F5 to run the routine and see the printout:

function print_props()


dim prop As dao.property


for each prop In forms("YOUR FORM NAME").properties
  debug.print prop.name
next prop


end function

[sah]

Thanks a lot help_me_with_access,

Can you just specify me the rates for programmers developing ms access projects in dollars.

[help_me_with_access]

welcome welcome welcome!

Can you just specify me the rates for programmers developing ms access projects in dollars.

ya know, I would have no idea. The last thing I heard was that "good" developers were charging around 100 USD an hour, but I know many developers that charge more than that in USD currency.

I personally don't charge by the hour because I've been doing this long enough to know that unanticipated problems are almost inevitable in any project undertaken. so I personally place bids based on other criteria, complexity and anticipated project size included. but that's me.

I sure hope you feel like the wheels turned with this thread. Glad to help out, especially if it gets something done. Lord knows we need more of that!

[DaveHancock]

hi again,
I just completed creating a small DB with forms, reports etc. and now for documentation sake we are supposed to calculate Cost Estimation of that project. I myself am trying hard to learn function points, COCOMO model, KLOC size etc. How are we supposed to estimate a project?

Good Morning sah,

Function Points are used early in project development to estimate the development effort. There is an International User group for Function Points:
http://www.ifpug.org/?page_id=10

Look for books by David Garmus for expertise on estimating function points. It is an exact science if you are trainined properly, but training involves several days of class then follow up mentoring. I have been trainined, but I am not an expert practioner.

I am a retired IT architect from Publix Super Markets, we used Function Points to benchmark our various development techniques and basically evaluate the productivity of our various development techniques and languages. We did a ton of VB development and used FP successfully to look at our VB productivity, benchmarking against industry wide metrics for VB development.

The concept is that if you know the count of:

1. your screens your going to develop,
2. the report layouts and
3. logical files you have to access
4. interfaces to other systems

in your solution you should be able to get a rough estimate of the complexity of the project effort. When counting your take into consideration the complexity of each item you count. I have over simplified the counting, there actually five items:

1. ILF (Internal Logical File - this most likely would correlate to conceptual tables (think views of conceptual entities) & queries you built in access)
2. EIF (External Interface File - tables you linked to that are outside your application (again think conceptual entities))
3. EI (External Input) - (think forms you designed)
4. EO (External Output) - thnk files you export out of your application or tables you create from logic inside Access
5. EQ (External Query) - think reports and readonly forms

After you get your count there additional euations to adjust the function point count for environmental complexity factors.

Once you have a reliable count, you still have to apply other variables that are dependant on the language you are developing in to estimate man hours. The man hour estimate would then be an industry average estimate assuming an industry average productivity rate for that language. Not sure if you know the term SWAG (Sceintific Wild %#* Guess).

This technique is best used for giving you a relative feel for the new project's effort compared against other efforts you have done. Once you have a portfolio have projects you have counted, you can compare the new work against the size and complexity of the prior efforts you counted for that language and you will have a pretty good idea of how long it should take you.