Best practice for edit modes to prevent accidental edits?

[rdougherty]

Hello,



I created a database (actually, I modified a horrible database created by someone who knew next to nothing about DBs) for 1 user to enter new records into.

The user (my colleague) was "married" to her old way of entering data directly into a table, which had no ability to error-trap, or good way to accomodate new one to many requirements management gave us for tracking new data associated with our work. Because i habe a fair amount of experience with Access, I volunteered to make improvements.

Long story short, she has complained at every stage, and resists design changes because she merely doesn't like them, without making sound arguments against them. To be sure, this is one of those challenging professional situations that we've probably all dealt with.

A data entry form was a given, and I decided to make records on the form uneditable by default, until the user clicks an edit button. I created a text box with red message of "Record Locked" which is only visible (and the form in no edits mode) when a record is saved, but not when a new record is created.

She scoffs at the fact that she must now click an edit button to avoid overwriting data on an existing record, and sometimes, due to her insisting on clicking all over with the mouse rather than tabbing through fields with the keyboard, she causes the record to save and re-lock.

Her new gripe is that after doing a batch-entry of several related records and realizing she input the wrong job number for the whole batch, must go into each one and click the edit button.

Am I incorrect for forcing the user to go through a seemingly easy step of declaring their intent to edit, and avoid semi-permanent mistakes?

Is this not a good practice?

[Welshgasman]

You could perhaps compromise and have her click the button once to edit one or more records, and not for each one.
I would also say No, you are not being incorrect/unreasonable.

[rdougherty]

You could perhaps compromise and have her click the button once to edit one or more records, and not for each one.
I would also say No, you are not being incorrect/unreasonable.

I reluctantly made that suggestion to her and she doesn't like it, haha

She acts like whether she likes a feature and isn't annoyed by it, is the only factor. It isn't, and I think I have support from our manager to design things as I see fit, but the office politics are very delicate here...

[Welshgasman]

Well if she is the only one entering data, let her make the mistakes. Then see what that does to the business.

As there were no checks pretty much before, keying directly into tables, she could have not been making that many mistakes, surely?

[Micron]

Consider a switchboard (not the built in one) if you're not using it, providing that there is an occasion to open the form as read only. If not, it makes no sense to me to force someone to put a form in edit mode one record at a time. I suspect some of the problems you are/will have is because the original designer didn't know how to put checks and balances in place. These might be things like
- user has to pick the required value from a combo and cannot free form type
- if there is a need to open a form one of three ways (read only, edit, append) then provide a means to do so.
- make edits a function of opening a form with a single record
- base the form on staging table(s), then if needed, the entire process can be canceled/undone without affecting the "final" records in the normal table(s)

Try placing yourself in the user's shoes and ask yourself if you'd be happy for the foreseeable future doing what you're imposing. If the answer is that it would become tedious, then don't make other people do it. Just my 2 cents.

[CJ_London]

I think you will find there are two types of users - one who prefers to use the mouse to ‘quickly get from A to B’ and those that prefer to use the keyboard to navigate. Seems you are of the former and your user the latter. You really need to design to cater for both types.

for example rather than requiring the user to click a button, provide a keyboard shortcut to allow the user to edit (perhaps ctrl-e?)

[rdougherty]

I hear what you're saying, micron. Fwiw, It shouldn't be tedious at all because this edit button only become an issue if you step off the record or look up an existing record already saved... the new records are already unlocked and don't lock again until saved manually.

The only time this issue occurred was maybe a couple times when she set the wrong default value for 10 records in a batch and realized it later. She only had to click the edit button 10 times max, and because she made a mistake, which kind of proves the point of needing to error trap and force someone to choose to intentionally edit a record. I habe already enforced no future dates and a warning if she chooses a date that is more than a year old because I have found random dates in there.

This user will never agree to a switchboard with forms opening to different edit modes because she insisted on having a continuous form of the entire recordset rather than entering one at a time. She would not let go of the table view so we have a split form with datasheet view at the top.

The datasheet view is useful for seeing where you are on the printed page, in case you get lost... so I conceded that.

I have been very accommodating with asking her what she wants, what works well for her, and emphasizing my desire to make it efficient and pleasant for her to use, but at the end of the day I am not making it tailored for her personally and she doesnt own it.. I am making it for the company and if she ever does data entry in another setting, I feel she will look back with some appreciation for what I've already done.

[rdougherty]

I think you will find there are two types of users - one who prefers to use the mouse to ‘quickly get from A to B’ and those that prefer to use the keyboard to navigate. Seems you are of the former and your user the latter. You really need to design to cater for both types.

for example rather than requiring the user to click a button, provide a keyboard shortcut to allow the user to edit (perhaps ctrl-e?)

It is set to ctrl+E . She will not use it and barely even uses tab at all.

++++++++++++++++
I guess what I may do is remove the confirm msgbox yes/no, which may make placing in edit mode less annoying...

[CJ_London]

I was going by this:

until the user clicks an edit button
...
She scoffs at the fact that she must now click an edit button

[NoellaG]

I think the whole situation will escalate until you listen to the user. You want her to listen, but do you listen to her? How would you react if you have been driving a car for years and are very comfortable with it. Then comes along a engineer and says: 'I know best, and will design you a better car. You have to start driving the way I decide, because I'm the specialist and I know best.' Even when the new car is a mazarati, most people would hate that.
Best changes are to sit together, and ask her what she would like, so she will be having a say in the development of the software she will be working with.
I've been working in IT for nearly 30 years and never seen a successful implementation when you don't involve and listen to the users.

[Welshgasman]

I once worked at a place and I was told they needed a new screen to combine items from several other screens.
So I went to the user who requested it and asked her how she wanted the data presented, what goes where?

She was astonished and said to me 'No one has ever asked us that before'

[rdougherty]

I habe been involving here every, single step of the way and explaining every pro/con very graciously... she just resists change. It is a problem for her, and she is resisting the data capture changes we are required to do by management as well..

I will just remove the edit button and let her deal with any consequences...

Thanks all

[NoellaG]

maybe a bit more listening and really hearing and understanding what she says would do a lot more than explaining every pro/con even if done graciously. The trouble with the user is not technical. Try to figure out why she resists change, and what she really wants. Build up the relationship from there.

[rdougherty]

I hear that, but guess what?

I was glancing at her data entry today, and witnessed her navigating through each record in a batch and entering one field each. Based on how we habe this set up, it means she was intentionally creating all the records first by creating 10 new records and stamping the batch defaults onto them, then circling back through the same 10 records to enter the one or two manual entries needed! (I said nothing)

That is asinine, and opens her up for huge errors. No wonder she didn't want to have records locked when saved!

That is the data entry equivalent of repeating a sentence by writing each letter in a columnar fashion. And, it means she lied about her original need, just to make entry more of a time killer like it used to be.

"I will not use bad data entry practices."
"I will not use bad data entry practices."
"I will not use bad data entry practices."
"I will not use bad data entry practices."
"I will not use bad data entry practices."
"I will not use bad data entry practices."

[Micron]

If you can't negotiate cooperation, you're going to have to find a balance between unlocking a record so it can be edited, then locking it again. As I've already mentioned, you can avoid this with a form that opens to only one record. Or you can make the form show a single record and use navigation controls (I'm assuming you're using a continuous or datasheet form and making it too easy to load many records in one view, which might be incorrect). Or some other design idea. Or the boss of both of you needs to hear why you're getting so much push back.