Access on the web?

[dkperez]

I need some advice......

I am a member of a nonprofit club. We have an application that's in Access, used by 2 - 3 people. It's pretty simple, for example, there's a member form that shows all the members and their data, and there's a subform for dues that shows information on the dues paid by a member.
So, very simple, standard Access stuff....... A few reports, etc.
And since it's simple and only used by a couple people it seems PERFECT to be in Access....

Problem is there are a couple different people in charge of club areas, and they use the application - as I said, 2 - 3 people. Currently, they each have a copy of Access with it's own database and forms and such, and coordination and synchronization is a mess. AND, they're limited as to who can be in these positions because the person has to HAVE Access and be familiar enough to work with it..........

SO, they'd like to run the whole thing from the web..... Have the .mdb file with it's forms, reports, data, etc, ALL up on the Windows web host, and let users get at the application like any other web application. HOW do I do this? I've created a simple Member data access page, but it doesn't appear to support parent/child relationships and so on.

Also, running a DAP appears to cause a lot of problems with the error:
Data Access Pages has detected that your IE security settings will not allow you to access data from a site considered to be insecure.

I've done the steps it says and I STILL can't run the member.htm file... And if I'm having these problems so will the people that actually need to run the application.....

SO, how do I do this simple application using what they've created and make it available from the web?

[NTC]

one option is the www.AccessTables.com service; this allows everyone to operate a copy of the Access db locally and then you send in the tables - they consolidate/replicate all the data - - and return to everyone a consolidated set of tables.

your next option is to find a web developer - turn over to him/her your Access db for them to look at as the prototype design...and get their quote. You will pay to have them develop it and then there will be the recurring for the hosting company...

a third option is abandoning Access and going to an online commercial db service - I would recommend www.DabbleDB.com Intuit also has a product : QuickBase - but it is quite pricey and intended for corporate users. Dabble is very reasonably priced and pretty cool. While I think you can import your data from Access into Dabble - the redesign using Dabble is a bit of work & learning and you have to use their system....there is definitely alot of features one takes for granted in Access that is not found in Dabble.

the other option of going with Sharepoint - I don't view as viable for you given your description of your situation...you have to learn that product which isn't trivial as it is intended for corporate users not occasional users....

another option is to run 1 installation of the Access db; and have users log into it using a commercial VPN service such as www.GoToMyPC.com. This will also have a monthly fee. The PC must always be on for the user. Only one user can log on at a time...and, importantly, the log on user will have the ability to see everything on the PC - not just the Access application....

that's it. I've used all of these.

AccessTables.com is probably the easiest in the sense that other than emailing the file - you really don't have to learn anything new nor do much to get it going. Plus everyone runs a local db which is sweet. But everything is a trade off.

For a very simple db I probably would go with Dabble - but you'll hit the wall pretty quickly in terms of features. Dabble is more like shared table view than anything else. Which means no custom VB, no queries joining multiple tables, etc etc. If you are Access oriented then Dabble's design logic is perplexingly different - it is almost easier if one is starting from scratch. But it's not bad at all for what it does.

GoToMyPC.com is very slick and easy to set up. But whether or not you can have a dedicated PC or allow others to see everything the PC may be a deal breaker.

[dkperez]

If I'm reading your reply correctly, there is NO way to have Access run on the web host and users just access the application.... BLEECH!

Unfortunately, that option of use Access as the prototype and give it to the web developer......... THAT'S ME...... And, of course, clubs are non profits and have no money, so I'd be developing out of the goodness of my heart!

If Access really can't do what I need, I guess I'll go to plan B...

I've put a MySQL database up on the web host - I can easily switch it to SQL Server, so that's easy. That way the users can do an external link to the data and at least all be using the same repository.....

BUT, if I create data access pages, are they as good or better than going into Visual Web Developer or Visual Basic or just writing php with html? Frankly, so far ALL the web tools I've used seem appallingly primitive (see earlier comment about parent/child forms), but if Access can't do the job, I'll have to recommend something else....

[WalterEgo]

nuBuilder is open source and will do all you need your shared app. to do. (and it uses mySQL)

It uses 'subforms' for child records and its actually faster for developing than Access is...

If your'e the IT guy, you'll find video tutorials, downloads and a wiki to help you get started.

Its by far the the alternative to MS Access for something that needs to be web based.

It even has its own report writer.

www.nubuilder.com

[dkperez]

I"ll have to play with nuBuilder and see if it can do the job...

[NTC]

right...nuBuilder wasn't in my reply because I thought the premise of the question was working with Access - and getting WAN/WEB connectivity to it.

if an application is truly best in the web architecture - then Access is not a candidate solution; and this opens the door to a whole other world of web tools i.e. the LAMP stack, Microsoft's ASP/Visual development, Adobe, etc etc.

I think if the premise is that one is sticking with Access and need some WAN/WEB connectivity then you look at www.AccessTables.com or GoToMyPC.com type services.

[dkperez]

Unfortunately, it sounds suspiciously like Access ISN'T going to work. GOTOMYPC and such aren't practical, and they'd like the application web-enabled and accessible from anywhere.......

SO, since Access STILL can't do decent web, I'm going to have to find another direction... The club just switched to a windows host, so at least we can use MS products, but it's clearly going to be a big step down from the ease of development and capability they had (there were 2 or 3 people that could use Access to build pieces. With having to do brute-force 3GL web coding there's now just me, and I'm not an expert).

SO, I'm guessing this question is answered, and the answer is "Unfortunately, it STILL doesn't".

[Rainlover]

Access 2010 will do it for you.

But it is not released as yet.

Also you can only use Macros not VBA.

Not much help but worth a mention.

[NTC]

but dkperez some perspective is important; when you emphasize that Access won't do it....keep in mind that mysql or sqlserver or whatever are not inherently web based either....in all cases one needs a front end web server.

one needs to define the requirement ie. web solution = lots of independent users without db know-how and a browser as their tool... vs distribute an Access solution among Access users. Your original string began with a description of just 2-3 users - - so the suggestion of the www.AccessTables.com solution is appropriate. Or maybe an online db service like dabbledb.com......

[Matrix]

It only needs several simple PHP pages if you concvert your db to MySQL, probably only one or two days work for a beginner.

[dkperez]

but dkperez some perspective is important; when you emphasize that Access won't do it.... keep in mind that mysql or sqlserver or whatever are not inherently web based either.... in all cases one needs a front end web server.

one needs to define the requirement ie. web solution = lots of independent users without db know-how and a browser as their tool... vs distribute an Access solution among Access users. Your original string began with a description of just 2-3 users - - so the suggestion of the www.AccessTables.com solution is appropriate. Or maybe an online db service like dabbledb.com.

Just for the sake of completeness, I'll change to perhaps FIVE users... BUT, the number isn't relevant in this case. The users want to be able to use the application WITHOUT having Access on their local systems. They don't want to have to buy it, don't understand it (these are NOT computer people), can't manage it, administer it, or develop in it. Imagine trying to explain to a totally non-computer person how to set up and ODBC connection and link to an external source.

They can use a browser, and if the application is idiot-proof enough, they can enter data, do simple edits, and MAYBE run a report..... As an example, the club now has a webmaster that's never done anything with a web host, doesn't know anything about web development, and selected
Go Daddy for the windows web host because it's the only name he'd heard of. And he's the knowledgeable one. He volunteered. Availability is now a skill.

It only needs several simple PHP pages if you concvert your db to MySQL, probably only one or two days work for a beginner.

Database is in MySQL so that's no problem. I can also move it to SQL Server so I can use Visual Web Developer, Visual Basic, or equivalent.

Frankly, my motivation for doing this at all is to learn building user interfaces for the web so I can do the front-ends for clients with whom I consult. I've been designing and developing systems, databases and applications for the last 20+ years. I've used a half dozen 3GL and several different 4GL tools, primarily in Oracle. But, I haven't done a lot of dynamic web development.

The last small project we did for a client used a web contracting company and it took weeks to build a fairly simple, couple screen application and connect to my SQL Server database (actually they didn't have to do any database work since I had a data abstraction layer where all they did was call functions). It cost something in the area of $30,000 and isn't overly impressive.

I put together a primitive version of the parent form of one of the club applications - less functionality than is available on the same form in Access, and perhaps I'm much less than a beginner but I'd love to work with the beginner to put it together in 1 or 2 days. Maybe I'm missing something but the combination of html and php required better than 450 lines of code to make this form. Of those, about 60 lines are html; the rest are php. And this is WITHOUT either of the child forms that have to be based from, and work with this parent... And even now, wrapping it in the php envelope isn't working.

Thus, my assertion that web tools like php, html, javascript and so on, are horribly primitive. Access, Oracle Developer, and to some extent Visual Studio, are better, although Visual Studio isn't very intuitive or flexible as far as form layout goes... I just got a copy of Dreamweaver so I'll see if
it's any better...

Eventually, I'll come up with something that works,

[Matrix]

Based on your experience, PHP would be a very good choice. Create some HTML pages with Dreamweaver, add some PHP code to make it dynamic.

[dkperez]

I"ll play with Dreamweaver this weekend... I'm going to have to create a real simple form, maybe with just one field or something and figure out how to get the whole php wrapper working. Time, brute force, and massive ignorance will eventually get me there!