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  1. #1
    pj.field is offline Novice
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    Do I want the impossible? Can I use lookup in the same table, or do I have to use Query-MakeTable, ?

    Hi, guys


    Please be gentle with me - I have used VB & C++ for a while, but never Access.
    I tried a simple problem using Access (Office 365) and was amazed how powerful it is.
    So, I thought I would be a little more ambitious.

    I wrote down what I thought was a decent schema, and finally dipped my toes in and built the database.
    By most standards, it is simple. A record of training carried out stored for posterity.

    I have a main Table, tblDelegate, with various bits of information about the delegate, eg First Name, Last Name, Training Date, Length of Training, Type of Training, Type of Machine trained on, Employer, Employer's Address and a few other bits and pieces that are irrelevant to my question.

    The Types of Training are in a table (tblTraining_Types), and are used as a Lookup. The types are constant, (Refresher, Novice, Conversion & etc),so the number of entries here are fixed, requiring no update(s) from the Entry Form (frmEntry).
    Similarly, there are a fixed number and types of Machines I train on, so a table (tblMachine_Types) is also used as a lookup, requiring no intervention.
    Finally, tblResult is a lookup table showing eight outcomes of the training, eg Pass, Fail Theory, Fail practical, & so on.

    So, 1 Main & 3 Lookup Tables run(?) from an Entry form. All seems to work well.

    However, I find myself constantly re-typing Customer Names and Customer Addresses over and over again.
    If I train successive delegates at the same Company, I have a little routine that "remembers" the last field entry on the form.
    For a different customer, though, fingers have to work again.

    I have read so many articles for such a long period now that I think I have brain overload! Hence my help request.

    I transferred Customer Name and Customer Address to a table (tblCustomer), and the appropriate tblDelegate field (fldCust_Name) uses tblCustomer as a Lookup table. This is fine, but only for customers already in the table. Is it possible to add Customer details to tblCustomer from frmEntry?
    I have not found how to do this - Access tells me, if I manually enter a new Customer name, that there is no record.....

    I tried running a query on the Customer table to create a new table, which works, but, again the question remains, how do I add new customer details 'on the fly' from frmEntry, which is mainly populating tblDelegate.

    If anyone can help an aged newbie with this, I will be very appreciative.

    Best regards, Pete

  2. #2
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    Hi Pete

    Can you upload a zipped copy of the database?
    You can PM me if you need further help.
    Good Reading https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/off...on-description

  3. #3
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    Location
    Swansea,South Wales,UK
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    I used a combo for my crew names and the NotInList event when I had to add a new one.

    My code to do that is below.

    HTH
    Code:
    Private Sub Crew_ID_NotInList(NewData As String, Response As Integer)
    'Dim strSurname As String
    'NewData = Left(NewData, InStr(NewData, " ") - 1)
    'Response = AddNewToList(mixed_case(NewData), "Crew", "Surname", "Crews", "frmCrew")
        Dim txtSurname As String, txtInitials As String, strPKField As String
        Dim intNewID As Long
        Dim db As DAO.Database
        Dim rs As DAO.Recordset
        Dim strSQL As String
    
        Response = acDataErrContinue
    
        If MsgBox(NewData & " is not in list. Add it?", vbYesNo) = vbYes Then
    
            strSQL = "SELECT * from  Crew WHERE 1 = 0"
            Set db = CurrentDb()
            Set rs = db.OpenRecordset(strSQL)
            txtSurname = Left(mixed_case(NewData), InStr(1, NewData, " ") - 1)
            txtInitials = UCase(Trim(Mid(NewData, InStr(1, NewData, " ") + 1)))
    
            rs.AddNew
            rs!Surname = txtSurname
            rs!Initials = txtInitials
            strPKField = rs(0).Name                  'Find name of Primary Key (ID) Field
            rs.Update
    
            rs.Move 0, rs.LastModified
            intNewID = rs(strPKField)
    
            'DoCmd.OpenForm strNewForm, , , strPKField & "=" & intNewID
            
            Response = acDataErrAdded
    MyExit:
            rs.Close
            Set rs = Nothing
            Set db = Nothing
        Else
            Response = acDataErrDisplay
        End If
    End Sub
    In case you also want to use the MixedCase function

    Code:
    '************** Code Start *************
    'This code was originally written by Jay Holovacs.
    'It is not to be altered or distributed,
    'except as part of an application.
    'You are free to use it in any application,
    'provided the copyright notice is left unchanged.
    '
    'Code Courtesy of
    'Jay Holovacs
    '
    Public Function mixed_case(str As Variant) As String
    'returns modified string, first character of each word us uppercase
    'all others lower case
    Dim ts As String, ps As Integer, char2 As String
        If IsNull(str) Then
            mixed_case = ""
            Exit Function
        End If
        str = Trim(str) 'added 11/22/98
        If Len(str) = 0 Then
            mixed_case = ""
            Exit Function
        End If
        ts = LCase$(str)
        ps = 1
        ps = first_letter(ts, ps)
        Special_Name ts, 1 'try to fix the beginning
        Mid$(ts, 1) = UCase$(Left$(ts, 1))
        If ps = 0 Then
            mixed_case = ts
            Exit Function
        End If
        While ps <> 0
            If is_roman(ts, ps) = 0 Then 'not roman, apply the other rules
                Special_Name ts, ps
                Mid$(ts, ps) = UCase$(Mid$(ts, ps, 1)) 'capitalize the first letter
            End If
            ps = first_letter(ts, ps)
        Wend
        mixed_case = ts
    End Function
    Private Sub Special_Name(str As String, ps As Integer)
    'expects str to be a lower case string, ps to be the
    'start of name to check, returns str modified in place
    'modifies the internal character (not the initial)
    Dim iLen As Integer
    
    Dim char2 As String
    char2 = Mid$(str, ps, 2) 'check for Scots Mc
    If (char2 = "mc") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then '3rd char is CAP
        Mid$(str, ps + 2) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 2, 1))
    End If
    
    char2 = Mid$(str, ps, 2) 'check for ff
    If (char2 = "ff") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then 'ff form
        Mid$(str, ps, 2) = LCase$(Mid$(str, ps, 2))
    End If
    
    'char2 = Mid$(str, ps + 1, 1) 'check for apostrophe as 2nd char
    'If (char2 = "'") Then '3rd char is CAP
    '    Mid$(str, ps + 2) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 2, 1))
    'End If
    
    ' Allow for a ' anywhere and then UCASE the next character
    ' Added by Paul Steel based on code above
    
    For iLen = ps To Len(str)
        char2 = Mid$(str, iLen, 1) 'check for apostrophe
        If (char2 = "'") Then 'next char is CAP
            Mid$(str, iLen + 1) = UCase$(Mid$(str, iLen + 1, 1))
        End If
    Next
    
    Dim char3 As String
    char3 = Mid$(str, ps, 3) 'check for scots Mac
    If (char3 = "mac") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then 'Mac form
        Mid$(str, ps + 3) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 3, 1))
    End If
    
    Dim char4 As String
    char4 = Mid$(str, ps, 4) 'check for Fitz
    If (char4 = "fitz") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then 'Fitz form
        Mid$(str, ps + 4) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 4, 1))
    End If
    
    End Sub
    Private Function first_letter(str As String, ps As Integer) As Integer
    'ps=starting point to search (starts with character AFTER ps)
    'returns next first letter, 0 if no more left
    'modified 6/18/99 to handle hyphenated names
    Dim p2 As Integer, p3 As Integer, s2 As String
        s2 = str
        p2 = InStr(ps, str, " ") 'points to next blank, 0 if no more
        p3 = InStr(ps, str, "-") 'points to next hyphen, 0 if no more
        If p3 <> 0 Then
            If p2 = 0 Then
                p2 = p3
            ElseIf p3 < p2 Then
                p2 = p3
            End If
        End If
        If p2 = 0 Then
            first_letter = 0
            Exit Function
        End If
        'first move to first non blank, non punctuation after blank
        While is_alpha(Mid$(str, p2)) = False
            p2 = p2 + 1
            If p2 > Len(str) Then 'we ran off the end
                first_letter = 0
                Exit Function
            End If
        Wend
        first_letter = p2
    End Function
    Public Function is_alpha(ch As String)
    'returns true if this is alphabetic character
    'false if not
        Dim c As Integer
        c = Asc(ch)
        Select Case c
            Case 65 To 90
                is_alpha = True
            Case 97 To 122
                is_alpha = True
            Case Else
                is_alpha = False
        End Select
        
    End Function
    Private Function is_roman(str As String, ps As Integer) As Integer
    'starts at position ps, until end of word. If it appears to be
    'a roman numeral, than the entire word is capped in passed back
    'string, else no changes made in string
    'returns 1 if changes were made, 0 if no change
    Dim mx As Integer, p2 As Integer, flag As Integer, i As Integer
        mx = Len(str) 'just so we don't go off the edge
        p2 = InStr(ps, str, " ") 'see if there is another space after this word
        If p2 = 0 Then
            p2 = mx + 1
        End If
        'scan to see if any inappropriate characters in this word
        flag = 0
        For i = ps To p2 - 1
            If InStr("ivxIVX", Mid$(str, i, 1)) = 0 Then
                flag = 1
            End If
        Next i
        If flag Then
            is_roman = 0
            Exit Function 'this is not roman numeral
        End If
        Mid$(str, ps) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps, p2 - ps))
        is_roman = 1
    End Function
    '************** Code End  *************
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails links.png  
    Please use # icon on toolbar when posting code snippets.
    Cross Posting: https://www.excelguru.ca/content.php?184
    Debugging Access: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...bug+access+vba

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Hi Peter

    The following paragraph indicates your structure is slightly off.

    "I have a main Table, tblDelegate, with various bits of information about the delegate, eg First Name, Last Name, Training Date, Length of Training, Type of Training, Type of Machine trained on, Employer, Employer's Address and a few other bits and pieces that are irrelevant to my question."

    A Delegate would carry out Training.

    This would indicate that you need a table to store details about the Delegate and you would then need a related table to record details about the Training.

    You can PM me if you need further help.
    Good Reading https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/off...on-description

  5. #5
    pj.field is offline Novice
    Windows 10 Office 365
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Welshgasman View Post
    I used a combo for my crew names and the NotInList event when I had to add a new one.

    My code to do that is below.

    HTH
    Code:
    Private Sub Crew_ID_NotInList(NewData As String, Response As Integer)
    'Dim strSurname As String
    'NewData = Left(NewData, InStr(NewData, " ") - 1)
    'Response = AddNewToList(mixed_case(NewData), "Crew", "Surname", "Crews", "frmCrew")
        Dim txtSurname As String, txtInitials As String, strPKField As String
        Dim intNewID As Long
        Dim db As DAO.Database
        Dim rs As DAO.Recordset
        Dim strSQL As String
    
        Response = acDataErrContinue
    
        If MsgBox(NewData & " is not in list. Add it?", vbYesNo) = vbYes Then
    
            strSQL = "SELECT * from  Crew WHERE 1 = 0"
            Set db = CurrentDb()
            Set rs = db.OpenRecordset(strSQL)
            txtSurname = Left(mixed_case(NewData), InStr(1, NewData, " ") - 1)
            txtInitials = UCase(Trim(Mid(NewData, InStr(1, NewData, " ") + 1)))
    
            rs.AddNew
            rs!Surname = txtSurname
            rs!Initials = txtInitials
            strPKField = rs(0).Name                  'Find name of Primary Key (ID) Field
            rs.Update
    
            rs.Move 0, rs.LastModified
            intNewID = rs(strPKField)
    
            'DoCmd.OpenForm strNewForm, , , strPKField & "=" & intNewID
            
            Response = acDataErrAdded
    MyExit:
            rs.Close
            Set rs = Nothing
            Set db = Nothing
        Else
            Response = acDataErrDisplay
        End If
    End Sub
    In case you also want to use the MixedCase function

    Code:
    '************** Code Start *************
    'This code was originally written by Jay Holovacs.
    'It is not to be altered or distributed,
    'except as part of an application.
    'You are free to use it in any application,
    'provided the copyright notice is left unchanged.
    '
    'Code Courtesy of
    'Jay Holovacs
    '
    Public Function mixed_case(str As Variant) As String
    'returns modified string, first character of each word us uppercase
    'all others lower case
    Dim ts As String, ps As Integer, char2 As String
        If IsNull(str) Then
            mixed_case = ""
            Exit Function
        End If
        str = Trim(str) 'added 11/22/98
        If Len(str) = 0 Then
            mixed_case = ""
            Exit Function
        End If
        ts = LCase$(str)
        ps = 1
        ps = first_letter(ts, ps)
        Special_Name ts, 1 'try to fix the beginning
        Mid$(ts, 1) = UCase$(Left$(ts, 1))
        If ps = 0 Then
            mixed_case = ts
            Exit Function
        End If
        While ps <> 0
            If is_roman(ts, ps) = 0 Then 'not roman, apply the other rules
                Special_Name ts, ps
                Mid$(ts, ps) = UCase$(Mid$(ts, ps, 1)) 'capitalize the first letter
            End If
            ps = first_letter(ts, ps)
        Wend
        mixed_case = ts
    End Function
    Private Sub Special_Name(str As String, ps As Integer)
    'expects str to be a lower case string, ps to be the
    'start of name to check, returns str modified in place
    'modifies the internal character (not the initial)
    Dim iLen As Integer
    
    Dim char2 As String
    char2 = Mid$(str, ps, 2) 'check for Scots Mc
    If (char2 = "mc") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then '3rd char is CAP
        Mid$(str, ps + 2) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 2, 1))
    End If
    
    char2 = Mid$(str, ps, 2) 'check for ff
    If (char2 = "ff") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then 'ff form
        Mid$(str, ps, 2) = LCase$(Mid$(str, ps, 2))
    End If
    
    'char2 = Mid$(str, ps + 1, 1) 'check for apostrophe as 2nd char
    'If (char2 = "'") Then '3rd char is CAP
    '    Mid$(str, ps + 2) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 2, 1))
    'End If
    
    ' Allow for a ' anywhere and then UCASE the next character
    ' Added by Paul Steel based on code above
    
    For iLen = ps To Len(str)
        char2 = Mid$(str, iLen, 1) 'check for apostrophe
        If (char2 = "'") Then 'next char is CAP
            Mid$(str, iLen + 1) = UCase$(Mid$(str, iLen + 1, 1))
        End If
    Next
    
    Dim char3 As String
    char3 = Mid$(str, ps, 3) 'check for scots Mac
    If (char3 = "mac") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then 'Mac form
        Mid$(str, ps + 3) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 3, 1))
    End If
    
    Dim char4 As String
    char4 = Mid$(str, ps, 4) 'check for Fitz
    If (char4 = "fitz") And Len(str) > ps + 1 Then 'Fitz form
        Mid$(str, ps + 4) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps + 4, 1))
    End If
    
    End Sub
    Private Function first_letter(str As String, ps As Integer) As Integer
    'ps=starting point to search (starts with character AFTER ps)
    'returns next first letter, 0 if no more left
    'modified 6/18/99 to handle hyphenated names
    Dim p2 As Integer, p3 As Integer, s2 As String
        s2 = str
        p2 = InStr(ps, str, " ") 'points to next blank, 0 if no more
        p3 = InStr(ps, str, "-") 'points to next hyphen, 0 if no more
        If p3 <> 0 Then
            If p2 = 0 Then
                p2 = p3
            ElseIf p3 < p2 Then
                p2 = p3
            End If
        End If
        If p2 = 0 Then
            first_letter = 0
            Exit Function
        End If
        'first move to first non blank, non punctuation after blank
        While is_alpha(Mid$(str, p2)) = False
            p2 = p2 + 1
            If p2 > Len(str) Then 'we ran off the end
                first_letter = 0
                Exit Function
            End If
        Wend
        first_letter = p2
    End Function
    Public Function is_alpha(ch As String)
    'returns true if this is alphabetic character
    'false if not
        Dim c As Integer
        c = Asc(ch)
        Select Case c
            Case 65 To 90
                is_alpha = True
            Case 97 To 122
                is_alpha = True
            Case Else
                is_alpha = False
        End Select
        
    End Function
    Private Function is_roman(str As String, ps As Integer) As Integer
    'starts at position ps, until end of word. If it appears to be
    'a roman numeral, than the entire word is capped in passed back
    'string, else no changes made in string
    'returns 1 if changes were made, 0 if no change
    Dim mx As Integer, p2 As Integer, flag As Integer, i As Integer
        mx = Len(str) 'just so we don't go off the edge
        p2 = InStr(ps, str, " ") 'see if there is another space after this word
        If p2 = 0 Then
            p2 = mx + 1
        End If
        'scan to see if any inappropriate characters in this word
        flag = 0
        For i = ps To p2 - 1
            If InStr("ivxIVX", Mid$(str, i, 1)) = 0 Then
                flag = 1
            End If
        Next i
        If flag Then
            is_roman = 0
            Exit Function 'this is not roman numeral
        End If
        Mid$(str, ps) = UCase$(Mid$(str, ps, p2 - ps))
        is_roman = 1
    End Function
    '************** Code End  *************
    Thanks very much for your speedy reply. I'll give it a go. Regards, Pete

  6. #6
    pj.field is offline Novice
    Windows 10 Office 365
    Join Date
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    Hi,mike60smart
    Thanks for your speedy response - appreciated
    Sadly, not at my home machine at the moment, so cannot send the actual program.
    I'm puzzled at your quote "A Delegate would carry out Training."
    No, I carry out the training on the Delegate, for his Company. Your suggestion of another table for the training details is, I think, in my case, OTT, as the details are just one phrase. For instance, "Novice", "Refresher" and the like. This one field on tblDelegate would be preferrable to another table - I think.
    Unless you mean to refer tblDelegate to tblTraining_Type, and to tblTraining_Details, which would have to refer to tblMachine, and so on.
    I see where you are coming from, but I truly think in this tiny DB, the less tables will be better.
    Obviously, as a newbie, I bow down to your experience.
    Best regards, Pete

  7. #7
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    Hi Peter

    Sorry I miss read your initial question.

    So I take it you have a Company Table which is linked to many Company Employees with each Employee taking part in Training?
    You can PM me if you need further help.
    Good Reading https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/off...on-description

  8. #8
    pj.field is offline Novice
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    Hi, again. Many Companies, with new ones weekly. Each Company has different training requirements for various employees/delegates, but not always the same employees at the company. That is, there is a need to create new employees at their company, AND NEW COMPANIES.
    The employees are all stored in tblDelegate, the Companies in tblCompany.
    Having a new employee is no problem. Having a new company is the headache, though.
    I can, of course, enter the new Company in tblCompany before adding the employee, using the Entry form. But it would be so much quicker / easier / efficient, when in the Entry form, to add the new employee, his details & etc., and any new Company, still in the Entry form. This is the crux of my very badly-explained problem.
    Best regards, Pete

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Hi Pete

    If your Main Form is based on Company and the related subform is based on Employee then it should be very easy to add a New Company and then add Employees for that Company
    You can PM me if you need further help.
    Good Reading https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/off...on-description

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    That form I posted in post #3, was the basis of my DB for the website mentioned in post #10 here https://www.accessforums.net/showthread.php?t=83324#10

    That table Links, does nothing but link the other tables. Read post #10 content, as I will not repeat it here.

    Perhaps that will give you some insight.

    TBH though, if I had a new company come onboard, I would probably expect to enter their details first, if they were at the top of the heirarchy?
    Then their employees.
    Then the delegates. Delegates to me would be Employees, that attend courses. Some employees, might have yet to attend a course.? So I would select potential delegates from Employees.?
    Please use # icon on toolbar when posting code snippets.
    Cross Posting: https://www.excelguru.ca/content.php?184
    Debugging Access: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...bug+access+vba

  11. #11
    CarlettoFed is online now Competent Performer
    Windows 7 64bit Access 2013 32bit
    Join Date
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    Perhaps if you attach the file, compressed after replacing any sensitive data, it will be easier to understand and help you.

  12. #12
    pj.field is offline Novice
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    Hi, guys. Sorry for the delay, but some of us poor souls have to work during "normal" (?) shutdowns.
    Home now, and I have the zipped DB for your comments.
    Once you've seen it, I think you will find redundancies that I cannot solve.
    Obviously, tblDelegate is the 'Root' table, as the job is all about the individual trainees (delegates).
    Apart from things you will spot, and that I, in my ignorance, probably don't realise are errors, the main help I am asking for lies in two areas -
    1. I am pretty sure that I should be able to create a tblCompany, holding Company details, Name, Address, Miles, Radius & Band.
    If so, when entering a new training record, how can I get a lookup / pulldown / combo box for the Company, and if it is a new Company, how could I add it to the Company Table?
    2. On the frmEntry, how can I get the BiTA category to automatically populate when I select the Machine type from tblMachine?

    I hope that the zip file will explain.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Hi Pete

    Well it is all down to normalisation of tables.

    Your tblDelegate contains information about the Company when it should only contain details specific to the Delegate.

    You should have a separate table for the Company information.

    Can you explain in plain english the process you go through when you are setting up a training session with a Company Delegate.
    You can PM me if you need further help.
    Good Reading https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/off...on-description

  14. #14
    ssanfu is offline Master of Nothing
    Windows 10 Access 2010 32bit
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    Naming objects:
    Do not use spaces, punctuation or special characters in object names.
    Do not use "Look Up FIELDS" in tables.
    Do not use Calculated fields.

    These two lines should be at the top of EVERY Module
    Code:
    Option Compare Database
    Option Explicit

    In VBA, variable types muse be EXPLICITLY declared.
    Code:
    Dim memMachine, memBita, memDelType, memResult, memComments As String
    So, "memComments" is declared as type String;
    "memMachine, memBita, memDelType, memResult" default to type Variant, since there is no explicitly declared type (Type Variant is the default type).




    I didn't know what some of the fields represented, so I didn't know what table to put them in......... this is my first pass at table/structure design
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Design1.png 
Views:	23 
Size:	41.5 KB 
ID:	44908

    PK = Primary Key
    FK = Foreign Key
    Field name + "ID_PK" = Autonumber


    Also See Microsoft Access Tables: Primary Key Tips and Techniques

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Hi Pete

    I would use the following 2 Forms to manage data input

    1 to add Companies and Delegates
    1 to add Training for Delegates
    Attached Files Attached Files
    You can PM me if you need further help.
    Good Reading https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/off...on-description

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