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  1. #1
    vermette09 is offline Novice
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    Keeping Access 2003 for ULS purposes viable?


    I am performing an update to our database and currently we have access 2003. I was assuming it would make sense to upgrade to 2013 if I am making changes to the database but after looking into the lack of ULS in 2013 i am wondering if I am better off sticking with 2003. I need to give specific users access to specific forms and reports in the FE db and am trying to find the best way to implement this. The users will be running the FE through runtime and onl one computer in the whole shop (admin) will have full version of access. I have read many threads on the topic and for the most part you have to create a custom setup that doesn't appear to be the easiest to update and modify permissions when necessary. So should I update to 2013? or keep the 11 year old software simply for ULS?

  2. #2
    burrina's Avatar
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    If it's not broke, don't fix it! If you must, do some BETA testing with 2013 if you can find a copy (Another PC) BEFORE you update.
    Personally I prefer 2010 myself.

  3. #3
    vermette09 is offline Novice
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    2010 is still capable of the ULS functions I would need, correct?

  4. #4
    June7's Avatar
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    If ULS means what I think it does, that went away with Access 2007. Code can be used to manage user access to objects. Review http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ac...010341994.aspx
    How to attach file: http://www.accessforums.net/showthread.php?t=70301 To provide db: copy, remove confidential data, run compact & repair, zip w/Windows Compression.

  5. #5
    burrina's Avatar
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    Excellent link. I stand corrected since I did not know what ULS meant anyway.
    Access is NOT Secure by design anyway but you can do some things to help. I'm sure there are many people on here that will assist you if you need help with this.

  6. #6
    ItsMe's Avatar
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    2003 is the last version to offer user and group permissions.

    I would develop in 2007 or 2010. It depends on what the earliest possible version any user may use. You do not want to develop an application using 2013 if it is possible a user may use 2010 or 2007. If all users are using 2013 then I would develop in 2010 just so you do not close the door on people with Office 2010. Why install RT 2013 on a machine using Office 2010?

    The exception is if you plan on using SharePoint and Web Forms. Then use 2013 to develop and 2013 to run apps. I have one user testing small apps using RT 2013 on W8.1 that were developed using Access 2010. No problems yet.

  7. #7
    vermette09 is offline Novice
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    I told management about the software requirements and suggested 2010 based on the fact that some of our pcs still run xp, but they said they will update to W7 in order to get Office 2013, because they want the most up to date. If I am better off developing in 2010, I can get that and everyone will be capable of RT 2010. I have to implement the easiest, most intuitive system that IT will be able to easily make changes to permissions and I am just worried how easily I will be able to provide that.

  8. #8
    ItsMe's Avatar
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    I use code in the front end files to manage users. 2010 db's allow for encryption if you need to secure the tables (back end) from wandering eyes. I have not used encryption in practice but it is easy to do. I have been developing in 2010 for about a year, coming from 2003. I like it now.

    So, not real easy to develop but you could create a GUI for a power user to add/remove users from groups. It could be more intuitive than the old school permissions wizard. Lock down the FE using VBA and options, then publish as accde to remove VBA. Lock down the BE using encryption. This should pass scrutiny. I am not a white hat, let alone a black hat but, I would not know how to get in.

    Let us know and we can provide snippets to remove access in the FE files.

  9. #9
    burrina's Avatar
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    Me.20DollarSoftware = GetintoDatabase

  10. #10
    ItsMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burrina View Post
    Me.20DollarSoftware = GetintoDatabase

    vermette09,

    If you lock yourself out you can PM burrina.

  11. #11
    vermette09 is offline Novice
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    These decisions are making me overwhelmed because I have to decide on a version first before I can see it's functionality.

    Basically my options are getting office 2010 and keeping it in the mdb format to use user level security, getting 2010 and making custom security with coding, or doing the same as the latter but with office 2013. I am not a full time employee, I am an accounting student with Access knowledge and will be returning to school in September, they need a user permissions setup that will easily be able to be changed for new and current users, and I don't know what option best fits that objective.

    I feel like this function of user-level security for forms and reports would be a pretty common practice, how do most people accomplish this? Is access just inferior when it comes to this procedure?

    Also, a side question, when a database is split, do the users need read/write priveleges on the location of the BE in order for their FE to function?

  12. #12
    June7's Avatar
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    As stated, this is managed with code. Access is inferior in regards to user security.

    Yes, users need read/write privileges to the backend folder.

    If they don't need new features in the db then best option might be not to upgrade.
    How to attach file: http://www.accessforums.net/showthread.php?t=70301 To provide db: copy, remove confidential data, run compact & repair, zip w/Windows Compression.

  13. #13
    ItsMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermette09 View Post
    These decisions are making me overwhelmed because I have to decide on a version first before I can see it's functionality.

    Basically my options are getting office 2010 and keeping it in the mdb format to use user level security....
    EDIT: 2010 will recognize (during Run Time) .mdb files with .mdw files that employ existing user permissions groups. The groups and the .MDW file must be first created using Access 2003. I would not expect all permissions features to be available in 2010. /EDIT

    Quote Originally Posted by vermette09 View Post
    ...they need a user permissions setup that will easily be able to be changed for new and current users....
    With some fancy footwork you can create an intuitive public interface to manage user permissions. It takes work on the development side.



    Quote Originally Posted by vermette09 View Post
    ...Also, a side question, when a database is split, do the users need read/write priveleges on the location of the BE in order for their FE to function?
    Users will need full permissions to the root where the backend resides.

  14. #14
    vermette09 is offline Novice
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    If they don't need new features in the db then best option might be not to upgrade.
    I just find it hard to update the entire database and still use the same software that has been there for the last ~12 years. I feel like it makes more sense to refresh the entire database.

    With some fancy footwork you can create an intuitive public interface to manage user permissions. It takes work on the development side.
    I figured as much, I guess first I should figure out how good of a dancer I am . I just don't want to dump all my time into it if I am not going to be able to make it function properly.

    I have found a number of tutorials that show sample code to get this up and running, but I haven't found anything that is setup exactly how I would want it. So I suppose it is going to take a lot of tinkering and learning on my part. In a perfect world I would have a table with all userlogins for active users with approximately 5 fields which represent the areas of activity (deparments ex, purchasing, shipping, job costs) with a simple checkbox you could turn on or off the permission for that form. Each area department would have its own form on the switchboard that takes the user to all of the forms that relate to that department. Everything would be locked down so they can only navigate through the main switchboard which would only include areas they are granted permission to. Would that be a reasonable task to accomplish?


    Like below, but with check boxes instead of x's.
    User Purchasing Shipping Time Cards Job Cost
    jdoe x x
    dsmith x x x x
    bjones x

  15. #15
    June7's Avatar
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    That table example is not a strictly normalized structure but probably adequate for your requirements.

    Not sure what you mean by 'update the entire database'. If you don't need features offered by more recent versions of Access, what is being updated?
    How to attach file: http://www.accessforums.net/showthread.php?t=70301 To provide db: copy, remove confidential data, run compact & repair, zip w/Windows Compression.

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