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  1. #16
    orange's Avatar
    orange is offline Moderator
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    My question is simply a request for you to clarify what your test(s) involve. What they are? What data is required/recorded?


    As I said, we only know what you tell us. So any details -that you know intimately - are foreign to most readers.
    Many people new to database have this misconception that buying Access is the big hurdle; somehow the software is going to build them a database. Well it doesn't work like that. Access knows only what you tell it. And if you don't follow certain rules/principles underlying database design (and specifically Access syntax), you will have quite a circuitous route to get a meaningful database. Trial and error is a poor design strategy. I'm not suggesting it doesn't work, but it can be very time consuming.

    Update:
    Seems we were both posting at the same time
    .

    Here is a free, generic data model that may be useful.

  2. #17
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    yes, I've seen this model. My question is the same: how would you perform the data entry? In this example, how would you create the form that PF Test ID was autopopulated along with PK Test Id and PK Patient ID.

    I understand your desire to conceptualize the entire database from scratch, but really, what I need is someone with more technical knowledge who is well versed with advanced forms. thanks for trying, though, I appreciate your effort.

  3. #18
    aytee111 is offline Competent At Times
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    I have made some simple forms using the wizard. This is one way of doing it, using the Visible property depending on which test they select. Another way would be to put all test subforms onto a Tab Control, another way would be to use command buttons instead of a combobox.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  4. #19
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    Quote Originally Posted by aytee111 View Post
    I have made some simple forms using the wizard. This is one way of doing it, using the Visible property depending on which test they select. Another way would be to put all test subforms onto a Tab Control, another way would be to use command buttons instead of a combobox.
    Thanks, aytee. The problem I am having though, is that the primary keys do not autopopulate. I was hoping somebody could glance at my demonotworking form, because it doesn't link the test data automatically with the vetID.

  5. #20
    aytee111 is offline Competent At Times
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    Right. New form for them all provided.

    The problem with your form is that the process isn't cascading. My examples do one record at a time and pass the ID's from form to form. It doesn't have to be in this format, but the passing of the ID's is what is important.
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  6. #21
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    Ok, aytee, this is EXACTLY what I needed help with. This is what I was trying to find the words for - passing of the ID's. I don't know how you accomplished this. Could you explain this part?

  7. #22
    aytee111 is offline Competent At Times
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    The hierarchy:
    - top table, demo, make a form - usually there are two processes, selection of an existing record and adding a new record. Either one contains the ID
    - second table, exam, make a form, add it to the first form as a subform, link the two forms by the linking ID (in this case VetID). Again, you can add a new exam or select from an existing
    - third set of tables are the test tables, same philosophy, make a form for each one, add these forms as subforms to exam form and link on the common key (in this case ExamID)

    This third set of forms can be presented in any way you choose, some options outlined in post #18.

    In each case the ID of the "main" form is passed thru the Link properties to the subforms that exist on that form.

  8. #23
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    Extremely helpful. I have a question - there are so many forms, tables, and queries in the solution you sent me - is it possible for you to number the objects in your solution somehow so I can just manually follow behind in your steps? So that I could painstakingly go from table to query to form and so forth, from start to finish?


    Ultimately, I'd like to incorporate your process and then insert each neuropsychological domain in a tabbed form. This would be far easier to use, I think.

  9. #24
    aytee111 is offline Competent At Times
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    I just noticed a mistake, my exam for has a query as its record source (not sure where that came from), it should be the exam table by itself. Queries aren't necessary in this scenario.

    Create all of this for yourself, follow the steps I outlined in post #22. Use the form wizard to create the forms based on the tables, then add the forms as subforms as described. There is one form per table, you provided 4 tables so there are 4 forms. Not that many! Under the Design menu click on the subform icon, a wizard will appear, use that to add the subforms. All very simple and a good learning exersize.

  10. #25
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    no querie, ok that's easier. I'll work through them. thanks.

  11. #26
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    Quote Originally Posted by aytee111 View Post
    I just noticed a mistake, my exam for has a query as its record source (not sure where that came from), it should be the exam table by itself. Queries aren't necessary in this scenario.

    Create all of this for yourself, follow the steps I outlined in post #22. Use the form wizard to create the forms based on the tables, then add the forms as subforms as described. There is one form per table, you provided 4 tables so there are 4 forms. Not that many! Under the Design menu click on the subform icon, a wizard will appear, use that to add the subforms. All very simple and a good learning exersize.
    Ay

    Aytee, I think I figured out my mistake. I created the Demo form, then the Exam form, then the RBANS form. Then I added Exam as a subform to Demo. Then instead of trying to add RBANS to the new Demo main form/Exam subform, INSTEAD I added RBANS form as a subform to Exam, which was itself a subform of Demo. THEN it passed!

    Does this sound right? It is letting me add new data. hallelujah.

  12. #27
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    I'm not familiar with the New Exam button. Is that necessary? can't I just use the >+ button on the bottom? I don't know if my lack of one of these is causing my problem.

  13. #28
    aytee111 is offline Competent At Times
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    Yes, that's right, RBANS is a subform on Exam. That's the hierarchy, passing key values down from the top, one form at a time.

    Those are called Navigation buttons and are usually considered not user-friendly, hence providing buttons instead and setting the Navigation button property on the form to No. That way the developer is in control of which record the user is on at any one time instead of the user deciding to move back and forth in the recordset.

  14. #29
    neuropsychresearch is offline Advanced Beginner
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    Quote Originally Posted by aytee111 View Post
    Yes, that's right, RBANS is a subform on Exam. That's the hierarchy, passing key values down from the top, one form at a time.

    Those are called Navigation buttons and are usually considered not user-friendly, hence providing buttons instead and setting the Navigation button property on the form to No. That way the developer is in control of which record the user is on at any one time instead of the user deciding to move back and forth in the recordset.

    One helpful touch on your database was the fact that the list box hid the tables until one was chosen. I see in table properties that the subform is not visible - but that alone doesn't make the subform visible; what specific keystrokes did you use to make it so that Rbans and Wais were visible only once they were chosen in the list box?

    Did that require visual basic?

    Also, are those navigation buttons easy to add?
    thx

  15. #30
    aytee111 is offline Competent At Times
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    what specific keystrokes did you use to make it so that Rbans and Wais were visible only once they were chosen in the list box?
    Go into design view, click on the combobox, look in the properties for the AfterUpdate event, click on the three dots. I made it so that you could easily add additional subforms, giving you a start.

    are those navigation buttons easy to add?
    Navigation buttons are those arrows at the bottom that Access provides. I think you mean command buttons? Usually one does not design a form where the user can go back and forth in the recordset. I have seen it done but don't do it myself. As I said, all I want the user to do is to be able to add a new record or to display an existing one. For the latter, there would be a combobox provided for the user to select from the list of records. I am a bit confused with what I have given you, however, you said one patient had a bunch of exams and each exam had a bunch of tests. This was not reflected on the forms and tables you provided. But if it were, one would first select a patient or else add a new one, then select an exam or else add a new one.

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