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  1. #1
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    Date Range Report with Multiple Date Fields

    Hi,

    I have previously been on this forum for help with a basic report (see https://www.accessforums.net/showthr...919#post106919)

    What I need to do now is make a slightly more specific report that asks the user for a start date and end date of the report. Crucially, this needs to search multiple date fields (14, to be exact) to find this information.

    Why 14 Date Fields?


    Our care staff go out and visit clients. For each day they visit (which can be anything from 0 to 14 days in a row), they input the date of the visit, the hours and minutes they were there, their name and the details of the visit. This is shown here (the screenshot shows 9, but it scrolls down to 14):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My Current Report

    My current report adds up all the minutes and hours for each record (across the 14 rows), converts the minutes into hours and formats the result, so I end up with the following:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is fine, and it shows me the total hours and minutes care provided. However, I also need to create a seperate report that only adds up hours from the fields that correspond to the date field. It needs to prompt the user to input a date range and then search each individual record for those dates. Where the date matches, it needs to add up the hours and minutes fields, and then move onto the next date field.

    Is this possible?

  2. #2
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    Do you have 14 date/time fields in 1 table? Can you provide more details on your table structure?

  3. #3
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    Crisis Calls Attended (Data Imported).zip

    Certainly. I appreciate you tasking the time to help. I have attached a copy of my database. There are 4 dummy records in there at the moment.

    Yes, I have 14 date fields. That is because for every visit a member of staff makes to a client, they input the date and hours worked into fields.

    The only way I knew of recording multiple visits was to create multiple fields.

    If there is a better way (which would make reporting easier) then I am all ears. Like I said, I am new to this.

    If you have a look at my database, you will see I have worked on it since I posted here. I have been experimenting with the Queries and SQL to try and get to where I need.

    I have started building a query, and this used a form to input date from and date to. Howevever I had a couple of problems with this:

    1) It creates the SQL code as AND, so it only returns records where BOTH the dates are within the range.

    2) If I change the AND to 'OR', it does pick up every record that has a visit within these dates from the date1 or date2 fields, BUT it also displays BOTH visits from date1 and date2 even if one of thoise dates is NOT within the dates.

    I need it to only show the visit hrs and min fields if the corresponding date field is within the date range. I thought I had cracked it when I learned about the 'UNION ALL' statement.

    I went ahead and wrote this code:

    SELECT [Crisis Calls Attended].[Log No:], [Crisis Calls Attended].[Client Name:], [Crisis Calls Attended].[Client Address:]
    FROM [Crisis Calls Attended]

    UNION ALL

    SELECT[Crisis Calls Attended].[1) Date:], [Crisis Calls Attended].[1) Hrs:], [Crisis Calls Attended].[1) Min:]
    FROM [Crisis Calls Attended]
    WHERE ((([Crisis Calls Attended].[1) Date:]) Between [Forms]![Date Range].[StartDate] And [Forms]![Date Range].[EndDate]))

    UNION ALL

    SELECT[Crisis Calls Attended].[2) Date:], [Crisis Calls Attended].[2) Hrs:], [Crisis Calls Attended].[2) Min:]
    FROM [Crisis Calls Attended]
    WHERE ((([Crisis Calls Attended].[2) Date:]) Between [Forms]![Date Range].[StartDate] And [Forms]![Date Range].[EndDate]));



    As I am sure you all know, but I didn't, this didn't work. Well, it did, but it didn't. It actually brought all the correct information over, but it appended it underneath my results as data, rather than creating new fields across the top.

    I am sure I am close to getting a solution, but lack the knowledge and expertise to see this through alone.

  4. #4
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    The only way I knew of recording multiple visits was to create multiple fields.
    How about creating multiple records?

    As your database is right now, it is not normalized; in fact, it looks like a spreadsheet. Access is not a glorified spreadsheet; it requires a different way of handling and storing data. Relational databases like Access must follow the rules of normalization. This site has an overview of normalization. Having a normalized structure is critical to a successful application, so spending the time to develop the correct structure is extremely important.

    Some other general recommendations:
    1. Do not use spaces or special characters in your table or field names
    2. Do not use lookups (list/combo) boxes in your tables; they are best left for forms (see this site for more details of why table level lookups are not recommended)
    3. Do not used reserved words as table or field names. See this site for a list of reserved words.


    When I create fields, I usually use a prefix to help me identify the type of field. Here are some of those prefixes:
    txt=text data type field
    long=long number integer datatype field (but not a key field)
    dte=date/time field
    sp= single precision number datatype field
    dp=double precision number datatype field
    log=logical (yes/no) datatype field
    curr=currency datatype field
    pk=primary key, autonumber
    fk=foreign key, long number integer datatype field

    In general, like data should be in 1 table. Since your clients as well as your employees are all people, their information goes in 1 table. You can include a field to designate their role (i.e. a client or an employee) assuming that each person only has 1 role.


    tblPeople
    -pkPeopleID primary key, autonumber
    -txtFName
    -txtLName
    -fkRoleID foreign key to tbl Roles

    tblRoles (2 records: client, employee)
    -pkRoleID primary key, autonumber
    -txtRoleName

    Since a client can have many visits, that describes a one-to-many relationship, so the visits should be recorded as records in a table related to the client. That structure would typically look like this

    tblClientVisits
    -pkClientVisitID primary key, autonumber
    -fkPeopleID foreign key to tblPeople
    -dteVisit (date of visit)
    -spTimeSpent

    However, in your case you actually have 2 people involved in visit: your client and your employee, so we have another relationship there that must be dealt with. So we have to relate the client and the employee

    tblRelatedPeople
    -pkRelatedPeopleID primary key, autonumber
    -fkCPeopleID foreign key to tblPeople (represents the client)
    -fkEPeopleID foreign key to tblPeople (represents the employee)

    Now it is this combination of people that interacts at a visit

    tblPeopleVisit
    -pkPeopleVisitID primary key, autonumber
    -fkRelatedPeopleID foreign key to tblRelatedPeople
    -dteVisit (date of visit)
    -spTimeSpent (I would have this field hold the total minutes of the visit rather than breaking it out to hours and minutes)

    You can still have a form where your employee enters the hours:minutes, but then you would covert the hours to minutes and put the total in the field more on that later.

    I see there are a lot of other fields in your table that will need to be migrated to a normalized structure. In order for me to help you with that, you will have to explain the purpose of each and how they relate to the client, the employee, a visit or whatever other entities are involved in your application.

  5. #5
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    Wow. First, thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed reply, I really appreciate it. Two, I now realise I have a lot of work on my hands.

    I have 1 table and 2 forms. The 'Date Range' form is to be used with the query to search for records in a date range. This doesn't work very well as I explained above.

    Ok, on the CC Form, I have two tabs (purely because access wouldn't let me fit it all on one page, it said it was too long). First, I have a 'Main Details' tab. This records client contact details, client reference numbers (log number, swift number, call session number), plus further details about the client's needs and care assessment. Most of this information does not need to be reported on, as it will just be viewed on a per client basis. I would need to use the Client Name, Client Address, Log No, and Swift No fields in my reports to identify the client.

    On the 'Visits' tab, all that is a way of recording each visit. The 'Staff Attended' field is for inputting the name(s) of employees who attended the visit. These do not have to be 'records' in the database. A simple text box where staff and enter free text in this box is sufficient. I have been reading that maybe a sub form would be better here, but I am unsure how to implement this, or report on it. The 14 rows with fields for each visit came about because of my own lack of experience with Access, as it was the only way I knew how to record multiple visits per record.

    I have two reports set up. 'Total Overall Hours' works, and adds up the 14 hours and minutes fields per record, and converts them. The 'Date Range' report is a copy of the first report I was using to try and get a date range report. I didn't get very far with that, nor with the Date Range1 query that is also for this purpose.

    Following your advice, I am reading about normalisation. I must admit it's confusing me a bit, but I will keep reading.

    What do you recommend my next steps should be?

    PS: It's funny you should say my database looks like a spreadsheet. I have created this from an existing spreadsheet, and I normally do everything I need to in excel, as I am very comfortable with it. This database has outgrown excel's usefullness though, unfortunately. On the plus side, I get to learn a new program....slowly!

  6. #6
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    I would get rid off the forms and reports you mention. They will not work once you redesign you structure. So basically, you are starting from scratch.

    When you have had time to study normalization, the next step would be to analyze your application and data to uncover the relationships that exist in your data.

  7. #7
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    So, within my database, am I right in thinking I would have three tables?

    1) Client Details (Name, Address, Log No, Swift No, Call Session Number)
    2) Assessment Info (All the other fields on the 'Main Details' tab
    3) Visits

    From there, how do I get it so they all link together into a record on a form? And how do I input multiple visits?

  8. #8
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    I would like to get a better understanding of your process. What is Call Session Number and are there multiple calls associated with a client?

    Can you explain what an assessment is and what things are done during an assessment and what type of data is gathered? Can an assessment be done multiple times for a client?


    What else is done during a visit that you want to capture in the database?

  9. #9
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    Unfortunately, this is going to be chinese whispers, as I do not deal with any of this in my day to day role, but have been asked to create the database. So my knowledge is limited. I will tell you what I know:

    The Call Session Number refers to a number given to the call by our call handling software (which in itself is a massive database, but handled by a specialist company).

    There will only be one call session number per client.

    This databse covers an 'emergency care' service that we manage. We get the call (which is given a Call Session Number) from Social Services who requests that we go and provide care to a client. We are given the clients 'Swift Number' from the Social Services. This also is a single constant for the client. We then record the time the call took place. There is also a 'time of email' field, which to be honest I am unsure if this is used if we recieve the referral by email instead of over the phone, or if this refers to an email sent by our staff to our operations manager. During the call, we collect the information of who is requesting assistance (Initial and Surname of person placing the call). This is not from a definitive list of people, it could be anybody. Then we ask who referred the client to the social services. This could a 'Social Health Team', 'Access Team' or a variety of different answers.

    In the next section (Headed 'Reason For Call' on the form), we gather information on why we have been called. This can be for for a variety of reasons, including multiple reasons. The 'No of calls' field under each reason is so we can total up how many calls we have had for a particular reason.

    The rest of the forms deal with our initial visit to the client. An assessment of the client is undertaken by our care staff to see what care tasks the client needs (Could be they need help making meals, or getting to and from the toilet, or bathing, or taking to the shops etc). We fill in the details of the initial cover (how long we were on site etc).

    The 'Call Acceptance' page deals with whether we take this client on and provide ongoing care tasks. If it was accepted, they make visits as neccessary until the client can be passed over to the Locality Team within social services to provide ongoing care. If it was rejected, we fill in the reason why we did not take the client on. Again, this can be a variety of reasons, as detailed in the Call Acceptance section of the form.

    On the 'Other' Section, we just have two fields where we confirm we have completed two tasks, and a free text box for any other relevent information. A notes field, if you will.

    Does this make sense?

  10. #10
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    This databse covers an 'emergency care' service that we manage. We get the call (which is given a Call Session Number) from Social Services who requests that we go and provide care to a client. We are given the clients 'Swift Number' from the Social Services. This also is a single constant for the client. We then record the time the call took place. There is also a 'time of email' field, which to be honest I am unsure if this is used if we recieve the referral by email instead of over the phone, or if this refers to an email sent by our staff to our operations manager. During the call, we collect the information of who is requesting assistance (Initial and Surname of person placing the call). This is not from a definitive list of people, it could be anybody. Then we ask who referred the client to the social services. This could a 'Social Health Team', 'Access Team' or a variety of different answers.
    This above sounds essentially like a request, so let's call the table tblRequest. You say that you record the person who is making the request. Do you get requests from people who are not part of Social Services? What do you do with the person making the request? Is it just for documentation purposes or do you interact with them after the request and thus need their contact info? Do you ever gather statistics on this person (i.e. how many requests came in from them etc.)?


    tblRequest
    -pkRequestID primary key, autonumber
    -dteRequest (date & time of request)
    -SocialServicesContact---not sure how to handle this yet since it depends on your answers above.
    -fkOrganizationID foreign key to a table that holds all applicable agencies, companies etc. that might ask Social Services to work with your group or any other groups you may work with
    -txtCallSessionNo

    In the next section (Headed 'Reason For Call' on the form), we gather information on why we have been called. This can be for for a variety of reasons, including multiple reasons. The 'No of calls' field under each reason is so we can total up how many calls we have had for a particular reason.
    Since you can have many reasons, that is a one-to-many relationship. Further a particular reason may apply to multiple requests (another one-to-many relationship). When you have 2 one-to-many relationships between the same two entities (requests & reason in your case), you have what is called a many-to-many relationship which is handled with a junction table.

    First, create a table that will hold all possible reasons (you can add to this table as needed).

    tblReasons
    -pkReasonID primary key, autonumber
    -txtReason

    Now relate the particular reasons to each requests (the junction table)

    tblRequestReasons
    -pkRequestID primary key, autonumber
    -fkRequestID foreign key to tblRequests
    -fkReasonID foreign key to tblReasons


    As for the Number of Calls field in your form, Access can calculate that based on the reason assigned to the request above, so there is no need to store that information. In fact, it would violate normalization rules to store it!



    Since the Swift Number applies to the client, it goes in tblPeople

    tblPeople
    -pkPeopleID primary key, autonumber
    -txtFName
    -txtLName
    -txtSwiftNo
    -fkRoleID foreign key to tbl Roles

    The 'Call Acceptance' page deals with whether we take this client on and provide ongoing care tasks. If it was accepted, they make visits as neccessary until the client can be passed over to the Locality Team within social services to provide ongoing care. If it was rejected, we fill in the reason why we did not take the client on. Again, this can be a variety of reasons, as detailed in the Call Acceptance section of the form.
    Does it matter as to when the acceptance is made? In other words, do you track the time from when the request is made to when a disposition (accept or reject) is determined?

    Since you also have reasons for rejecting, those reasons should be in tblReasons. We can add a field to tblReasons to distinguish the types reasons: request reasons versus rejection reasons, so tblReasons becomes:


    tblReasons
    -pkReasonID primary key, autonumber
    -txtReason
    -fkReasonTypeID foreign key to tblReasonTypes

    tblReasonTypes
    -pkReasonTypeID primary key, autonumber
    -txtReasonType


    Therefore when you reject a request, you just add another reason or reasons to tblRequestReason.

    By the way, who makes the determination of whether to accept or reject the request? Is the person who makes that call different from the person who does the assessment?


    With respect to the assessments, is there only 1 assessment? What happens if a particular client is in need of help in the future? Is another assessment conducted?

    With respect to visits, what happens at each visit other than just recording the time spent? I assume that you evaluate progress relative to the assessment items assigned during the first visit. Can you provide more details on this part of your process?

  11. #11
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    Do you get requests from people who are not part of Social Services? What do you do with the person making the request? Is it just for documentation purposes or do you interact with them after the request and thus need their contact info? Do you ever gather statistics on this person (i.e. how many requests came in from them etc.)?
    These request are always from the Social Services. We only record the person making the request for documentation purposes. It is not used again. We don't gather information about how many requests from individual people.

    Does it matter as to when the acceptance is made? In other words, do you track the time from when the request is made to when a disposition (accept or reject) is determined?
    Not quite. We have fields under 'Initial Assessment' for 'Time of Arrival' and 'Time Leaving Site', plus 'Initial Cover Provided by CV', which is the length of time on site. This initial assessment visit is the only one we need to record arrival time on, as this can then be compared to the 'Time of Call' of the request to see how long it took us to get to the client. So it's the time of arrival that counts, not the actual time of acceptance/rejection, as this is assumed to have been made during that first visit.

    By the way, who makes the determination of whether to accept or reject the request? Is the person who makes that call different from the person who does the assessment?
    The member(s) of staff who is on site doing the assessment make this decision.

    With respect to the assessments, is there only 1 assessment? What happens if a particular client is in need of help in the future? Is another assessment conducted?
    Yes, there is 1 initial assessment. If the call is accepted, we then provide care each day (normally no longer than 7 days, but can be anything from 1 visit to 14 visits. The client is then 'passed on' to the Locality Team at Social Services who then provide any further care. As far as I am aware, this only ever happens once per client.

    With respect to visits, what happens at each visit other than just recording the time spent? I assume that you evaluate progress relative to the assessment items assigned during the first visit. Can you provide more details on this part of your process?
    During the visits, we provide the care that has been found to be needed during the assessment. For example, Mrs Bloggs may need help every morning getting out of bed, washed and dressed. Each day, we will attend and carry out these tasks. After we have completed all of the visits that are needed, we fill in a form and send this to Social Services at the Council and put the date this was sent in the "Discharge Completed and Date Sent to Oxford County:" field.

  12. #12
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    These request are always from the Social Services. We only record the person making the request for documentation purposes. It is not used again. We don't gather information about how many requests from individual people.
    If that is the case, then you can just have a field or fields as necessary in tblRequests.

    Not quite. We have fields under 'Initial Assessment' for 'Time of Arrival' and 'Time Leaving Site', plus 'Initial Cover Provided by CV', which is the length of time on site. This initial assessment visit is the only one we need to record arrival time on, as this can then be compared to the 'Time of Call' of the request to see how long it took us to get to the client. So it's the time of arrival that counts, not the actual time of acceptance/rejection, as this is assumed to have been made during that first visit.
    If you treat the initial visit as just another visit then it would be easier to have 2 fields for arrival and leaving and use that same approach for all visits. Access can calculate the elapsed time so your users do not have to. That will give you consistency in your data and will be less prone to errors in recording elapsed time.

    BTW, does the person who conducts the initial visit do all of the other visits for the same client?

    Do you record anything else in the subsequent visits such as details of what was done, or do you just record the time spent?

    Since you have multiple events associated with a request: Receipt of the request, acceptance/rejection of the request and discharge of the request, that describes a one to many relationship, so a change to the structure I proposed yesterday is necessary.


    tblRequest
    -pkRequestID primary key, autonumber
    -SocialServicesContact
    -fkOrganizationID foreign key to a table that holds all applicable agencies, companies etc. that might ask Social Services to work with your group or any other groups you may work with
    -txtCallSessionNo

    tblRequestEvents
    -pkRequestEventID primary key, autonumber
    -fkRequestID foreign key to tblRequest
    -fkEventID foreign key to tblEvents
    -dteEvent (date/time field for when the event occurred)


    tblEvents (includes the records: receipt, acceptance, rejection, discharge, Sent to Oxford County
    -pkEventID primary key, autonumber
    -txtEventName



    Since the acceptance/rejection is pertinent to the request and not strictly the initial visit, it needs to be an event relative to the request.

  13. #13
    StevenCV is offline Novice
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    Again, I really must thank you for taking the time to help me.

    As for your questions:

    If you treat the initial visit as just another visit then it would be easier to have 2 fields for arrival and leaving and use that same approach for all visits. Access can calculate the elapsed time so your users do not have to. That will give you consistency in your data and will be less prone to errors in recording elapsed time.
    I understand your point, but I am not sure that would fit. I think maybe I have not explained this too well, thanks to my limited knowledge of this in practice. I have just clarified something by checking the original spreadsheet given to me with the data on.

    For the subsequent visits, they have a field for 'Date', 'All Times Attended', 'Total Hours Provided' and 'Staff Attended'. Within this 'All times attended' field, the staff have been entering multiple visits for the same day. Therefore this 'block' of visits refers to 'DAY 1' of our care provision. For example, in the 'All Times Attended' field for one client, they have entered "08:00-09:00, 12:00-13:00, 16:00-17:00" and then in the 'Total Hours Provided' field they have put '3'. Does this significantly change the planned new database? Because putting start and end times would be doable, as they already provide that information, but the way they currently provide it would not work with your proposal, as they need to input multiple visits within each day.


    BTW, does the person who conducts the initial visit do all of the other visits for the same client?
    No, this can change on a daily basis, as can the number of staff conducting the visits. E.g. Day 1: Joe Bloggs attends. Day 2: Joe Bloggs and Joanne Smith attend. Day 3: Vicky Fakename attends.

    Do you record anything else in the subsequent visits such as details of what was done, or do you just record the time spent?
    Just the time spent, as the care that the client requires has already been captures and recorded during the assessment visit.


    I am sorry if I am confusing matters, but unfortunately I have not seen any of this work 'in real life', not spoke with end users actually filling the form in. A senior manager has just handed me a spreadsheet and asked me to create a database :-o

  14. #14
    jzwp11 is offline VIP
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    they have entered "08:00-09:00, 12:00-13:00, 16:00-17:00" and then in the 'Total Hours Provided'
    Each segment of time would be entered as a separate record, so 3 records as described above. The users would not need to worry about total hours provided, Access will calculate that. I would recommend that the user enter the date and the time in each of the two fields for a record. This is how the tables would look

    tblRelatedPeople
    -pkRelatedPeopleID primary key, autonumber
    -fkCPeopleID foreign key to tblPeople (represents the client)
    -fkEPeopleID foreign key to tblPeople (represents the employee)

    Now it is this combination of people that interacts at a visit

    tblPeopleVisit
    -pkPeopleVisitID primary key, autonumber
    -fkRelatedPeopleID foreign key to tblRelatedPeople
    -dteStart (include both date & time)
    -dteEnd (include both date & time)


    Technically speaking since we have two date/time fields, it would by normalization rules be considered a one-to many relationship, but I think in this case we do not have to go that granular

    No, this can change on a daily basis, as can the number of staff conducting the visits. E.g. Day 1: Joe Bloggs attends. Day 2: Joe Bloggs and Joanne Smith attend. Day 3: Vicky Fakename attends.
    OK, the above structure should handle that using tblRelatedPeople



    We have not addressed the actual assessment. I assume that you have a list of assessment items that are reviewed/evaluated at the initial visit, so we'll need a table for that

    tblAssessmentItems
    -pkAssessItemID primary key, autonumber
    -txtAssessmentItem

    Of course, we have to associate the assessment items with the visit to which they apply

    tblVisitAssessment
    -pkVisitAssessID primary key, autonumber
    -fkPeopleVisitID foreign key to tblPeopleVisit
    -fkAssessItemID foreign key to tblAssessmentItems
    -someevaluationfield

    You have to make some evaluation of each assessment item. Do you have a list of typical choices? What other info is gathered?

    I am sorry if I am confusing matters, but unfortunately I have not seen any of this work 'in real life', not spoke with end users actually filling the form in. A senior manager has just handed me a spreadsheet and asked me to create a database :-o
    Now would be a good time to talk to the end users to see if they have other suggestions and insights into the process (and the forms they are currently using) that you have not yet covered in your table structure.

Please reply to this thread with any new information or opinions.

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